Preparation - as we began our series Experiencing the Hope of Jesus, the theme of the message was to trust Jesus' words and prepare for His return. I felt the response to the messages was good - that it invited people to be again begin looking for His coming. I have always had a hard time with this particular aspect of the 2nd Coming as it is very easy for me to have a "yeah, right, He could come back today" attitude. This message to prepare was to me first - prepare your heart, get busy with the work, and look up because your redemption is drawing near. I am glad that our series started at this point - prepare.
I really enjoyed today's services, probably as much as I have ever enjoyed them, only because for the first time since we went to 2 services, our 2nd service had more people in it than the first. I enjoyed that - I actually thought that would be the norm when we switched, but it has been completely the opposite. I am ready for summer to quit stealing so many people away :) - I know in the fall that the attendance will spike up to around 120 once everyone gets back.
Today we had several families that were gone - and with Rod & Elizabeth on vacation - I wasn't sure what our attendance would be. But we had at least one family back (Kregg and Veronica-great to see you guys again!), and we had several visitors: Kyle Weststrates' parents were with us, and they were very gracious and friendly. Also, we had a totally free car wash on Saturday the 6th, and a woman who is vacationing in the area from Massachusetts - Ida - along with her family - Katie, Michael, and Isaiah(?) - came to the car wash and then came to church. It was great. We had 6 visitors, so it was a good day along those lines as well. In all, we had 97.
I am excited about some new families in our church (I am also excited about some of you not-so-new families as well) - but I am praying that these new ones will stick around and see the impact that can be made on this area. I am excited about Christopher and Amy, and also about Jim and Diane (who we spent a great afternoon with yesterday). May the Lord give them the vision that we have for this area, and the desire to carry it out in this body.
One other thing - at the end of the message in both services I asked if anyone had any questions - and some did. I will do my best to continue that - just giving us a few minutes to interact with the Word that was brought. I like interacting on this site as well, but in person with the congregation can also be a great thing. Let me know what you think about that.
In my mind, this was a really good Sunday, even though we were missing several families. But the Lord was good, and the word brought, though not profound, was a good reminder for us to be prepared - Matthew 24:42 - "So be prepared, because you don't know what day your Lord is coming."
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
11 comments:
I agree about the devisiveness over the end times and 2nd Coming - as believers we have REALLY let ourselves get carried away with theories and perspectives. I believe that the book of Revelation is a literal book in figurative language, and I believe that the figurative language allows me the opportunity to NOT have to define everything. The starting and ending points in discussing the end times -according to Jesus-are trust and preparation. The rest, every other detail, will work itself out according to God's plan, whether or not I figure it out. It's God's job to do the planning, and it's our job to do the trusting! :)
Great stuff Jim. " Heaven and Earth will pass away" But the Word of God will not. John 1:1 The Word is God.So really it's not an issue if God decides to not have a heaven. Interesting that you bring this up. When I went home yesterday I looked up the scripture where Christ chases out the money changers John 2, I think. He says you will not turn my father's "HOUSE" into a Den of thieves. Then John 14:1 " In my Father's "house" are many dwelling places" SAME greek root word oaikio . AND part of the root word means " Household" as in family. In my fathers household or family are many dwelling places.Many places of ministry, of rest of freedom of life abundant,many places of expression. I go to prepare a place for you". And it's interesting that you point out that scripture that says heaven will pass away. I've never seen that before. Thankyou Jim. Really. I think God doesn't want us trying to focus too much on heaven does He? Interesting. Christ teaches us to pray Thy Kingdom come on this earth.
Jim, allow me to give you my take on some of the questions you raised:
About Matthew 24, I would say that it is a double prophecy. In other words, it has double fulfillment, both in the first century and in the last days. There is no question that many of the circumstances described happened in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. That event (Jerusalem's destruction) is the beginning of the dialogue in verse 1, but it is not where Jesus ended the dialogue. Right off the bat, this passage has a double fulfillment. This is not uncommon in the bible, and it fits perfectly here.
But because it is a double prophecy, it makes it difficult to know exactly when the "end times" part begins. Wars, disease, false prophets, famine - all of these things are not new. And as I look at Matthew 24, I believe it is referring to THE 2nd Coming - which will take place after the events we see in Revelation and which event we see recorded in Rev. 19 - cf. Matt. 24:30-31 w/ Rev. 19:11ff. Although we do not know when the end times as recorded in the book of Revelation will begin, we know that once they do, according to Matt 24:27-34, the coming of Jesus Christ is "near, right at the door." As you said, once these things start, the natural progression is like leaves in the fall in New England - be looking, it's about to happen.
And we can know that it is near, but no man knows the day or the hour which so many have tried to predict - Matt 24:36. Remember "88 Reasons why the Lord is coming back in 1988"?
So far as Jesus' statement in verse 34 - about this generation not passing away until these things have happened - again, it's double prophecy. The destruction of Jerusalem would happen within a generation (-40 years). But also, the generation that is around to see the end times would not pass away until the 2nd coming - once Revelation events kick in, it will be a short time until He comes back.
One last comment from Jim's post - the statement in vs. 35 about heaven and earth passing away but not the words of Christ is (in my mind) a declarative, emphatic, almost-exaggerated statement (similar to what I feel about I Cor. 13:1). Jesus is saying that all else may fail, but not HIS WORDS - take them to the bank. I don't know that He suggested that heaven would pass away - although we do know that He will make a new heavens and new earth - "I am making all things new" (Rev. 21:5)...
Ed, the last thing you said in your post was right on - we are not to focus on heaven. That will come. Thy Kingdom come is what we should seek - seek the advancement of God's agenda and mission here on earth. Be looking for His return - note that Jesus didn't spend much time elaborating on Heaven - the Apostle John gives us most details - because as someone else said, "He didn't want us to get so heavenly minded that we become no earthly good!" I do the trusting and serving, and He will take care of everything else.
OK - I have answered some things according to how I see it. Anyone else want to chime in here?
Thanks for keeping the discussion alive. My research brought me to a web site where this phrase is discussed. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/heavenandearth.htm This person says that “heaven” is symbolic for Israel. He gives many other scriptures where God refers to Israel and authorities as heaven or heavens. Here is a small quote from him.
“If the dissolving of heaven and earth were to be taken literally in all the passages of the Old Testament where such language is used, it would necessarily mean that the heavens and earth were to be destroyed numerous times! The language has to be figurative. This brings us back to our comments on the cosmic disturbances mentioned in Matthew 24:29, when "the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" There Jesus was not talking about the literal heavens coming apart. He was talking about the rulers and the dignitaries of the nation of Israel falling. This happened in A.D. 70 and there was no more a nation of Israel."
It does seem here that Jesus is referring to the things he was showing his disciples, namely the temple.
There are some other references in the NT, like this one in 2Peter 3
7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness."
Peter says God promises a new heaven and a new earth. So I figure Jesus was not talking about the heaven most of us think about when we think of living in heaven for eternity.
So it is very possible that the “heaven and earth” he refers to everything that man presently perceives. More reason to be trusting and prepared!!
Very interesting thoughts - I read alot of that article online you posted - I don't buy everything that the author is selling - I think it's a stretch to say that "heavens and earth" are Israel...my personal opinion. I do think he has some interesting arguments though.
One thought regarding this passage being strictly about the destruction in 70 AD is that Matthew 24:3 clearly lines out the two fold purpose of the discourse, one I alluded to - Jesus is questioned about the destruction of the temple AND His return AND the end of the world/age.
One can argue that the disciples meant the end of THEIR world/age and thus the references only to the destruction of Jerusalem would fit, but they ALSO questioned Him about His return.
That's where the study of the 2nd Coming comes in - otherwise this would have just been a look at the future of Jerusalem. We know that He hasn't returned yet, although the Jehovah's Witnesses would have us think differently (wink wink). His spottings would be like that of Elvis... :)
Jesus is describing two different events/periods in Matthew 24 (thus a double prophecy potential) because of verse 3. What do you think?
Watching and Preparing...
Here is the definition of the greek word used here for heaven. This is taken from the Strongs exaustive concordance. From Matt. 24:31-35- heaven (Greek)=Ouranos
1)The vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it.
a)The universe, the world.
b)The aerial heavens or sky.The region where the clouds and the tempests gather and where thunder and lightning are produced.
c) The sidereal or starry heavens.
2) The region above the sidereal heavens the seat of order of things eternal and consummatelt perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings.
So take your pick guys. Who would like to chew on Matt 24:31 ? (ASV)And He shall send forth His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other.( Strongs greek for heaven?) same word, "Ouranos"
Jesus Christ's first appearing to this earth again is now, as we speak, being manefested through His body.He's coming forth in us. Forgive me, I don't know the exact verse but there is a scripture in the book of Revelation where John has this vision or actual incounter I don't know, with a person that he mistakes for Christ. And John falls down and begins to worship until the person stops him and says something like" No don't do that I am a fellow brother like you. Here is John who would lay upon the Lord at dinner, who saw the Lord transfigured. Who saw the Lord ascend into "heaven".Who experienced the Holy Spirit on the day of penticost and He thinks that this man is Jesus !! And starts to worship the guy!! I would have to say that Jesus really came forth in that man.And this is all before things are finished in the book.His ways and His thoughts are not ours. I really want to see God's sheep focused more on 2 Corinth 3:18---But we all with unveiled face,beholding as in a MIRROR the glory of the Lord,ARE BRING TRANSFORMED into the SAME image from glory to glory just as from the Lord,the Spirit.I want our faces unveiled, I want us to see the glory of God coming forth in His body and as we see it we are transformed into the same image. "Thy kingdom come on this earth" The presence if the KING is the Kingdom ! Great discussion guys !
The “double prophecy potential” seems a little weak to me. I understand double meanings of words, and how history often repeats. But I have felt that prophecy was either fulfilled or not fulfilled. If there is a potential for double prophecy then why not triple, or quadruple? I can see the prophecy being over a period of time. “The Christ is coming”. Well he came and he’s coming again. Is that a double prophecy? Maybe I play with words to much. They certainly are weak in themselves. I’m not personally worried about the details of prophecy. But if Jesus said it, and it is recorded for us, then we are wise to handle it to the best of our ability. Good study will make us ready to give an answer for our hope and increase our faith. A “double application potential” :)
Ed, you are right on with your concern for our transformation. We have much bending, and moving to do in becoming like the image of Christ. I also liked your statement about seeing Christ in others. Wow, if we could hold on to that we would be motivated to loving people like he loved us. A little bit of HEAVEN on earth.
What is a double prophecy? Let me give you three definitions from the top of my head:
1) A single prophecy finding its fulfillment in two different events or two different people. Example - Isaiah 7:14.
2) A mixed prophecy, where different events are described simultaneously as if it were one event. Examples - Isaiah 9:6 and (in my opinion) Matthew 24.
3) A prophecy to one person or peoples that is replicated somewhere else in Scripture to another person or peoples. Zech. 3:20 cf. John 14:3 - to Israel and to the church.
This is explained more fully in a good article at http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/gap.htm
The double prophecy is not at all out of line with the Bible - I don't think it is weak - it's not at all contradicting, and has precedent. We should be careful though, to let the Bible determine what is double prophecy and what is not.
So with that, in Matt. 24:3, if we keep things in context (and nothing is more important in biblical interpretation than context), Jesus is explicitely dealing with at least two events because He was asked two questions, which would/could lend itself to double prophecy. The questions on which the whole discourse is based is, "When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?"
I love the conversation. Thanks for the time. And I am so glad that I am discussing this outside of a message - remember, in essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all points, charity.
Ed,
Good thoughts. May the Lord shine through us so that people see Him.
So far as Matthew 24:29-31,35, let me give you as literal a translation with definitions of heaven for each mention as best I can, combining the literal ESV with one of the most trusted Greek-English Lexicons around (Bauer Arndt Gingrich):
Here goes:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven (as the starry heaven), and the powers of the heavens will be shaken (the host of heaven of the stars, which the Israelites worshipped idolatrously, which is also meant here).
30 Then will appear in HEAVEN the sign of the Son of Man (according to the context, the sign consists in this, that He appears visibly in heavenly glory), and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of HEAVEN with power and great glory (as the place of atmosphere; the clouds hover in it).
31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other. (There was no reference here - but contextually, it would seem to be "one end of the sky to the other," as the NASB puts it)
35 HEAVEN and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Heaven mentioned with earth here forming a unity as the totality of creation).
Just munch on that for awhile - from a reputable lexicon, it looks good.
" The presemce OF the king is the kingdom"wherever He is is the kingdom.
Rob, Ed Great come backs! I too am glad we can push back and forth on these topics without disturbing the unity. I enjoy it. I'm going to take a break from this topic and see what next week brings. Have a great week!
Post a Comment